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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
06’ ram 1500. Process of rebuild with forged bottom end 5.7. Stock compression. Stock heads, intake. Having valves seats redone. I’m not looking for a full out race car. Daily driver with some fun on weekends. Has the D-1SC blower. Have long tubes with stock cam, 2600 converter, 3.92 gears. Had the SRT4 stage 1 injectors. Was told by my previous tuner(Jay Greene), that the srt4 stage 1 would be enough if i raise boost to 10psi, but I’d need a boost a pump. Have been waiting about 3 weeks on a cam he’s recommend but he’s been off commission(injury). I cannot wait any longer so I seeker another tuner. Flyin Ryan performance was recommended but I have no experience with them. His cam is a 219/223 "Scud" (113+2) Great street strip cam. Noticeable idle, but not rough.. Makes great power from 2000-6200 rpm.
He also said the SRT4 stage 1 injectors would not be enough and that I would need

FIC1000 injectors.
Now I know in grand scheme of things cometic and ARP head bolts or studs are optimal. He said new factory head bolts and mopar head gaskets are sufficient as long as you aren’t making 4 digit numbers. Any thoughts on this setup?
 

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2004 GTX
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All of FRP cams were created by Steve Frank, one of the 1st G3 cam guys who took the time to realize the G3 Hemi is not an LS, even when I was at Comp cams , a lot of people working on G3 cam program were very pro , "it works on an LS it'll work here". the Guys at Crower, Howards and Hughes all took a different approach.
FRP has a ton of great running G3's out there, he's not as conservative in his tunes as Jay Greene, but he's very one tune fits all guy, in the last 2 years we've rebuilt about 6 of his exclusively tuned Boosted Eagle Headed, pre Eagle Hemi's, all with burnt pistons.

Stage 1 Injectors are good to about [email protected] 58lbs. with a blower, about 600-650 Turbo, Jay's right in saying over 10lbs needs a boost pump....,
as for FIC ...... 775's will get you to 1khp At 85% duty with 58lbs line pressure.......650's would be good also , but 775's give you some room to grow, 1000's are just a CYA suggestion on FRP's part.

Speaking 03-08 heads,
Head bolts.....stock ones will work to about 14PSI with Cometic gaskets, stock Head gaskets, I don't trust with stock head bolts at that level of boost.....people do it, and they are successful for a year or till they sell the car/truck.. Over the summer we rebuilt an 06 maggie single turbo, 5.7 stock head gaskets, stock Bolts, 12 lbs of boost, gasket went, it hydro locked, and wasted a few "drop in Pistons & rods.
Stock head gaskets, and ARP head bolts....I've gone 18-20. but we knew it was getting torn down at the end of the season, and when it was torn down, you could see the heads were moving around some.

Eagle heads tend to flex less, their deck is not thicker, but since the chambers are smaller, there's more surface area to kept them stiffer....not sure if that makes sense....BGE/Hellcat heads will take the most boost of the OEM heads, Apaches flex alot.......the New AFR heads........WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Boy can they take some boost ....with ARP studs.
The open(ish) deck of the 5.7 doesn't help any either.....lots of parts moving back in fourth in boosted applications.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you. Maybe I’m missing something. But the early hemi’s especially in tuning are lacking. I know it’s not the popular. I’m just taking in as much as I could. Thank you for explaining. Considering Jay was my first tuner, hemi’s get more expensive. As the truck progresses, I know it’ll get more expensive. Im sure FRP cam and tune will be worth it. Just wanted to get some opinion s before I make the leap. With the 7psi, long tubes and jay Greene tune I could only muster as 15.4. Now, that was on a 92 temp with a somewhat loaded interior(I have 3 kids). Im just looking at all experienced are perspectives. This was from FRP response as far as cometic vs stock head gasket and bolts.
“The gen 3 Hemi uses the same headbolt from the early 5.7 all the way to the demon. You dont see people upgrading to a ARP hardware on hellcats and demons unless its 1100+ whp . The oe or oe replacement bolts and oe style headgaskets will do you just fine.
Ive seen more issues with people trying to use cometic gaskets than people pushing or torching OE or OE replacement head gaskets.”

I respect all opinions. I’m just observing all ideas to come up with the most efficient approach. I’ve searched through countless threads and haven’t seen anything updated. Thanks for the reply. I’m certainly leaning into the FRP cam/tune. Have you heard or know of any experience with the “Scud plus” cam? After going over through email, FRP suggestion is the SCUD PLUS cam. I thought originally it was the regular SCUD cam. Sounds interesting, any opinions would be helpful. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The cam spec for the scud plus is as follows
219/227 “Scud Plus” (113+2) Max effort stock piston NA grind. Choppy idle, 3200 stall or greater recommended. Also available as a 218/228 111+0. This was recommended by him with my combo and staying with a 2600 converter.
 

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I'm a frim believer that any thing over [email protected] .050 needs a 2800 stall , your truck is a 4x4 QC ? if I remember,
218/228 111+0 vs 219/227 113+2 , with out know lift it's crap shoot , both cams are 111 LSA (111+0, 113+2 , is 111 LSA)

{[(intake duration + ex duration) / 4 ] - lsa} *2 , when you work out the math 111+0 has +1 overlap and 113+2 has -3 , why does this matter, ...for turbo you want to run -8 to 0 , Boosted wants 0 to + 8 , there's 4 degree difference , 113+2 will have 5-8lbs more cylinder pressure if both cams have the same lift.#s.

111 cam IVO is -2 , 113+2 cam IVO is -1.5 (very close)
111 cam IVC is 40, 113+2 cam IVC is 40.5 (very close)
111 cam EVO is 45, 113+2 cam EVO is 48.5 (3.5 degrees larger)
111 cam EVC is 3 , 113+2 cam EVC is -1.5 (4.5 smaller)

IVO , since both cams open at the same(ish) degree, and only differ by 1 degree in duration, the cam with the higher lift will fill the cylinder with more aircharge and make better power through the same RPM range.
IVC/EVO is 4 degrees longer on the 113+2 cam, so if both cams have the same ex lift ,113+2 should have slightly more cylinder pressure, which means it'll make more low end tq but will have more intake reversion as it gets over 6k RPMs....Not an issue for what you are looking at.

I've replaced one Scud+ cam with a custom grind 218/222 , 562/662 110+3 , made 35more Hp and 20 more Tq, but moved the RPM range up about 1500RPMs , not a good choice for a 4x4 , but worked out great for the 6sp 5.7 Challenger .

All 04-14 DCX/FCA Hemi ECU's have a hard 14psi(200KPA ) limit, there are a few tricks that people use to go over it, rescaling the Tables only gets you so far, remember you have a fixed # of cells in the Axis and Row columns . 8160 is the RPM limit , we can go over it, but when you log something that is turning 8400RPMs on the stock ECU the timing is all over the place no matter what the last cell calls for....Look at the Difference between these 2 tables , one is a stock 04 Ram Hemi, the other is what we have in my sons insane 392(also a 04 ram) with a Kenn Bell 4.9L Supercharger,
see how compact the RPM and MAP scales are in the stock WOT table Vs what we have to do to get some form of Control over this 1200Hp(@16psi)392, the longer we make the spans between each value the more difficult it is to get these to do what we are asking of it....think of it like wooded planks on a bridge, you have 17 planks on a 17ft bridge, we stretch that bridge to 34 ft and still only have 17 planks, the more distance between planks the easier it is for you to fall through.....what happens is , if the computer losses it's "place" between cells for what ever reason it defaults to the memory table*...which NO ONE has accesses to, Not HP, Not Diablo, Not SCT , even the guys who are hacking these with HEX.

FRP is being disingenuous or just ignorant to the facts when he says, Hellcat and Demon 6.2's have the same head bolts as any OEM NA Hemi, Ram 5.7 or SRT392 .. The Blown OEM engines are hand assembled and have a unique head bolt from the factory.....the Parts catalogs use the std head bolt# as a replacement part , that is true.

* the 392 makes 1200 on the Terminator system, 1050 on the 04 ECU
** the memory table is close to the MBT table.....think of it like 3 floor building, if you fall through the WOT table the MBT table should catch you, if it doesn't you'll hit the "memory" table.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes mine is 4x4 with the 3.92 gears(stock size 20” tires. I’m just looking for optimal with my current setup. I’ve already invested into a 46re conversion with Martin saine 2600 converter. I’m not looking to break any world records. Just want a fun daily driver. I’ve taken what you’ve said into consideration about later eagle heads having a better bite due to smaller combustion chamber. FRP tuner is still
Adamant that the felpro head gaskets and head bolts are sufficient. I’ve also read while parts are important, it’s the tuner that’s the most significant. Still awaiting for his cam suggestion considering I back checked and he originally suggested the scud cam. A few days later sent an updated link on the Scud plus. Not sure if it was an error but awaiting clarification.
 

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I'd stay with FRP, he's going to have a 20-30 templets to start with for you r combo , so it should be 1-3 tunes before he gets it on point ....

go with the 113+2 cam it'll make a few more lbs of Tq , over the 111+0 cam, there's a few other cams in that range that are better power wise but they'll take more effort to tune.....FWIW I'm the same way, when people come to the kids shop we steer them to cams we are familiar with....it human nature to work with what you know,

as for Head bolt Gasket, only you can make that choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update, finally picked up shortblock. After all is said and done builder recommended .040 head gaskets MLS head gaskets(I have ARP head studs) while tuner(FRP) recommends the .027 with felpro head gaskets. I did go with the 113+2 cam. Given, builder checked tolerances which is why he recommend .040. I did mention tuner about going .027 and he did not seem against it. While i got springs im just afraid of valves making contact. Any thoughts?
Lastly, the bore size is 3.927. I’ve been looking at cometic and the only size close to is a 3.950. Would the 3.950 be a bit too big or find something a little closer? Thank you.
 
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