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· Greg
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20,332 Posts
I have yet to get one good piece of advice. especially from you my friend ;) does anyone on here build anything for themselves, or are all the true mechanics, and builders on the lxforums. This just seems like parade of guys talking about how cool they are, and how things work, or wont work without any factual evidence or trials.

Peace out ladies!

Haha this kid is trolling.... must be dull over on the lx side..... :facepalm:
 

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386 Posts
I have yet to get one good piece of advice. especially from you my friend ;) does anyone on here build anything for themselves, or are all the true mechanics, and builders on the lxforums. This just seems like parade of guys talking about how cool they are, and how things work, or wont work without any factual evidence or trials.

Peace out ladies!
John, my Ram is the fastest N/A 5.7 Hemi Ram on record, and my cam is A LOT smaller than the Comp 274. I'm only running a 214/222 Cam on a 113.5 LSA ,and I have to shift at 7000RPM with an aggressive 3400 stall converter and 4.56 gears to get the full potential out of this cam. My truck was .2 slower when I tried shifting at 6400rpm, and it also went .3 slower when I switched the 4.56's out for 4.10's. These motors and transmissions are very different from what you are used to in the LS world. You need a lot of gear, a lot of converter, and very high shift points to use a cam that size on this platform.
 

· Matt
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2,661 Posts
What's a phaser?
'09+ VVT engines use a cam phaser to change valve timing by a few degrees. It's what makes the 4th gens run so much faster/stronger right out of the box without mods. They make more torque down low and more hp on the high end than 3rd gens. My '06 stock made 345 hp, my '11 makes 383 hp(factory ratings). The differences? 4th gen intake manifold and VVT. There's no way the manifold made that difference. :thumb:
 

· Greg
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20,332 Posts
'09+ VVT engines use a cam phaser to change valve timing by a few degrees. It's what makes the 4th gens run so much faster/stronger right out of the box without mods. They make more torque down low and more hp on the high end than 3rd gens. My '06 stock made 345 hp, my '11 makes 383 hp(factory ratings). The differences? 4th gen intake manifold and VVT. There's no way the manifold made that difference. :thumb:
Thanks brother, I knew about the VVT, but didn't recognize the term phaser...
 

· Matt
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2,661 Posts
:thumb: I'm hoping the cam phaser in these hemi engines is better than what Ford used for years in the 5.4L triton. They had a lot of problems with power loss over time. The phaser would go bad and the engine would run "fine" never missing or throwing a code. They just turned into a bigger pooch :D They've been out for a while and so far I haven't heard any reports of Hemi phasers going bad so hopefully that trend continues.
 

· Greg
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20,332 Posts
IMO, the VVT is a good setup. But the cams are pricey.
 

· Matt
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2,661 Posts
IMO, the VVT is a good setup. But the cams are pricey.
The cams cost the same, the extra cost comes from the included phaser. Performance cams use a phaser that's limited to 11 degrees(I think?) This keeps the longer duration cam from letting pistons chase valves closed in the event of a phaser failure.
 

· Greg
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20,332 Posts
Gotcha...
 

· Matt
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2,661 Posts
The cams cost the same, the extra cost comes from the included phaser. Performance cams use a phaser that's limited to 11 degrees(I think?) This keeps the longer duration cam from letting pistons chase valves closed in the event of a phaser failure.
Correcting this....the cams are more expensive....by a lot. I don't know why because they do not come with a phaser as I thought. Also, you have to buy a phaser limiter in addition. Moe's phaser limiter limits to approx 18 degrees. It just takes up oil volume in the cam gear's oil chambers. That's how it works :facepalm: I need to slow down when reading....:facepalm:
 

· Matt
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2,661 Posts
Let him try it and I'll smoke him with a bone stock crew cab 2500 4x4 :D he'll never get it rolling without any torque :brows:
 

· Administrator
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18,195 Posts
some people just don't understand. this is not a GM its a MOPAR! huge cams and what not make no sense unless you build it to handle them and spin a lot higher rpm! I spin mine to 6500 and that's plenty good for me.
 

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Ok so this is an old thread, looking for information on a nice cam but not too big like the 274 maybe a 268? My goal is a badass daily with 450-500 wheel n/a. Maybe eventually supercharger but definitely far from that. Ported 6.4 manifold, cold air intake, cam, long tubes.
 

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2004 GTX
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109 Posts
Ok so this is an old thread, looking for information on a nice cam but not too big like the 274 maybe a 268? My goal is a badass daily with 450-500 wheel n/a. Maybe eventually supercharger but definitely far from that. Ported 6.4 manifold, cold air intake, cam, long tubes.
What year ?( obviously 09 and later since we are talking about Phasers) Reason I ask is , 09-10s have some tuning issues because of the way the code is written, 14s are the best for tuning 11-13s are 2nd best....15+ are just as good to tune as the 14s just have to jump through a few more hoops with ECU/PCM unlocking and more Emissions crap to work around in the program.

The Comp 274(full disclosure Former Comp Cams employee) 226/[email protected] .619/.624 116LSA , Irony is when we were creating that cam(and the 270) we didn't have a 392 car to test it in, we did all our in house testing with a 5.7 Manual Challenger. Ran that car well in to the High 11s,@ 114/118MPH, remember this was still the dark days of G3 Tuning, there was a lot of in house debate going on about the the LSA, there were some who wanted to make it as low as 110, but 116 won out because 116 to 120 LSA is optimal for boost, 116 is still very tuner friendly, and doesn't give up a lot of Tq...(I know Ironic to what most people claim about the 274) when we got a 6.4 crate engine to test with , a 108LSA version of the 274 was tested we hit 600 Hp with that "test cam", but broke 5 out of 8 pistons* ( I can explain , but I don't want to side track more)
....No disrespect meant here but the issues a lot of people had with the 274 was the fact that no one understood how to tune for it, our in house dyno 5.7 mule was constantly making 525-530 HP with that cam and the old XV crappy single plane intake, once we had a drag pak to toss on it, it would clear 580 easily, throw a carb set up and a MSD Hemi -6 box and 590 HP was not out of the question.
One of the cars that we built last January/February (2009 Challenger 6M car, 3.91 rear gears) is running an all forged .030 5.7,Blue printed set of Eagle heads ported/polished but retains stock size valves, a 274 cam and Edelbrock Intake, with 6k RPM shift point runs it runs 11.20's like clock work, which correlates to roughly 490RWHP/565Flywheel on local 93oct, My son Benny did the tune... we also have a customer who runs a 362CI 5.7 VVT (VVT Block) with a 274 cam, Apache heads that have some work to them , it's 2008 RCSB Ram, and that truck has dipped in to the High tens a few times.

Comp's 268 for the VVt engines (214/[email protected] ,.510/.504 113LSA) will not get you to 450RWHP unless the heads have some exhaust work done, the main advantage to this cam is you can use your OEM Eagle Valve springs, even though it's a relatively small lift, short intake duration, with the right intake and exhaust system it can be an RPM freak, It's "advertised" operation range is listed as 1800-6500, it's really more of a 2500-7k cam, in the 6.4 it'll out rev the the OEM intake and the Edelbrock, with a Drag pak or Prefix's single plane it'll pull till the Valve springs break.

Comp Cams HRT Stage one, 218/[email protected] 571/545 114LSA , it was molded after the 6.4SRTcam, but has many advantages that the 6.4 cam is lacking, mostly duration and the Comp cam is 114 LSA vs 121 of the OEM cam.
It's good for 430ish HP in the 5.7 , it can get you to where you want, but lots of supporting Mods

Comp Cams HRT stage1 Turbo Cam......stay with me here, is actually one of the better NA cams on the market right now, 221/[email protected] .050 , .594/.594 Lift and 116 LSA , it'll get you 450-480Hp depending on supporting Mods, but here again it's better suited for an 8sp Trans because it's going to need 3k or High stall. Why is it a Good NA cam....The Eagle heads biggest obstacle is the Exhaust Valve of 1.57 , the Eagle head Needs 1.60 -1.625 to make BIG HP #s the port it's self is a great design.

Comp Cams 266 , odd cam, 218/226 @.050 .612/.605 it'll make close to 500RWHP , but really needs to breathe

MMX , I guess they call this cam the NA lope now, it's 214/224 @.050 and .591/.581 , it'll clear 400RWHP with a good tune and nothing else ,it's the only MMX cam I'll recommend ,because MMX doesn't print specs for a lot of their cams, so If I don't know what it is , then how can I recommend it.

I'm Not a Texas Speed guy at all, but they have some good VVT cams, and we've had some good results.

Their stage 1 cam is 214/222 @.050 .582/.582 and 115LSA, TSP claims 460/470HP/450/460Tq, which RWHP is just over 420 , most tuners will hit that HP # , some of the better ones should get you close to 430....and obviously the more work in to the Long block the better the results.
TSP Stage 2 NA cam is 218/[email protected] .582/582 115 LSA , they claim it's a 480hp/460TQ , this cam will get you within your goal, and the better the tune and supporting mods you can clear 440 RWHP.
TSP Stage 3 NA cam, 223/[email protected] .050 .582/.582 116LSA , they claim 490Hp 460TQ, Personally I've seen this cam hit 525hp/535Tq on a dyno test , downside side is it needs a HIGH stall speed convertor to work, and is better suited for an 8sp trans, the RFE65 will, 1) not last AT ALL,2) because this cam really needs a 3k or Higher stall, the RFE65 is very limited in convertor choice in that stall range.
Stage 4 and their Chop monster.....STAY AWAY , there not bad cams, they are just out of range of what you are asking for..and yes if you are wondering they both have .582/.582 lift.

Cam Motion....they are all too big for what you want.

Once you get over 220/[email protected] .050 a 3k converter is necessary, because of the way the ECU/PCM works.


Did some editing this morning for grammar
 

· Registered
2004 GTX
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109 Posts
* the broken 392, we tested a few different versions of the 270/274 cams, with a bench mounted ECU 85MM tb, we were at 600ish with 28* timing all in at 3200RPMs and 12.2 AFR, tried fattening it back up to 11.4-11.8AFR and lost HP , took it back to 12.2 AFR took timing up to 30* all in by 3200......and POP , broke ringlands on 5 of the 8 pistons.

A few custom grinds we've worked with, and some of these fall in to the , really too big for what you are looking for...but it's all bench racing at this point.
1) 232/[email protected], .590/.610 110 LSA , needs 3k stall , but will make roughly the same Tq as the OEM eagle cam, likes to rev , it's another cam that'll pull to 7k-7.5k if you have a top end and exhaust system that'll let it breath , was designed with the 03-08 5.7 head in mind, works very well with the eagle head( 09-10.......no stay away)
2) same specs as above except 112 LSA , still need 3k+ convertor , but is easier to tune with the 09-10 ECUs makes slightly less HP then #1 but pulls harder in the 3k-4k, will rev to the moon, but after 6800 you're just wasting effort.
3) 260/260 @.050,.640/.640 110LSA , Max effort /7k+ RPM type cam and delivers...one of my favorite "here Chevy,Chevy,Chevy,Chevy" cams....Irony is it's a straight copy of an older Comp Cams 351C(Ford) flat tappet cam. with the right supporting mods(IE lot's of investment Money) it'll hit 1.9ish Hp/CI (640-650HP from a 345ci) but realistically it's good for 600hp @ 7000.....Not daily driver friendly.
4)242/[email protected] ,.640/.655 106 LSA , the guy who designed it calls it his "cut throat" cam, difficult to tune for stable idle, it will Chop/Chop/Chop any tree down with out "ghost tuning" the OEM ECU/PCM hates it, RPMs are your friend with this cam., but still makes reasonable Tq #s under 3k RPMs.....2009-2010 , NOPE ,it's not for those guys AT ALL
5) 225/230 @.050 , .575/600 112 LSA (also a 351C spec cam) we've have used it 10x and all ten times it's delivered over 500RWHP in 5.7s and 540ish in 6.4s , it's another cam that lends it's self well to the smaller Eagle Exhaust valve.
6) 225/231 @.050 .550/545 114 LSA , it's a solid mid 400HP cam, the better the exhaust side the higher the HP, it's tuner friendly, very broad power curve.
7) 208/212 @.050 , 540/545 114 LSA , it's a Hughes Engine cam spec it'll get you into the mid 400Hp zone, very tuner friendly , works with a stock convertor we used it once in a 2011 QC , stock Exhaust ,no headers, stock Intake ,No cold air intake,.....truck was straight up off the dealer lot stock type truck, it was a 13.40's all day deal, with a PB of 13.31 @102 MPH weighing in at @5500lbs race weight(roughly 460hp)....and it sounded stock.
8) 224/228 @.050 ,573/578 114 LSA (another Hughes spec cam) , it's performance is even with TSP's stage 3 cam , easier to tune then TSP's cam and will clear 500hp before TSP's stage 3cam will....but it needs a good convertor, a little less stall the TSP's stage3 , 2009-2010, you need 3k stall , 2011+ you can get away with 2800, 2500k convertor is not out of the question, but makes the tuner's job harder, because it wants to "bounce" off the convertor in Idle situations.

All the above cams have been used with OEM ECU/PCMs some of these cams when used with aftermarket PCM's or "old school" Carb and MSD box will Make 10-15% more HP.

the power potential for the 5.7 is greater per cubic inch then the 6.4, with "stock" heads, (IE Eagle on 5.7, Apace/BGE on 6.4)

I've seen 392 strokers (5.7based) out Hp/Ci OEM 6.4s with the same cam/head combo which bucks the "accepted" thinking that large bore/short stroke makes better power at the same Ci

I'm out have grand kids to watch this afternoon.
 
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