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Greg
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19,956 Posts
I don't know what hp red makes. But with the cog belt it has low end boost like a blower and pulls top like a turbo. It's a good combo.. making 17psi @6000.
 

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Stu
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21,155 Posts
ATS transmissions are built for what you want them too do. Stage II: Daily driver/towing, 400hp. Stage III: Daily driver/towing 600hp.

One of the things I like about my ATS trans, it shifts like a stock trans. Now keep in mind, the 2800 stall Pro Edge is acting like a 3000 stall tc in my 05. So if it shifts hard, the tc will take some of the hard shift out of it. My modded stage III Shardon 545rfe trans in my 03 shifts hard with the stock tc. It gets annoying after a while...

https://www.atsdiesel.com/
 

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Stu
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21,155 Posts

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Greg
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19,956 Posts
Just got off the phone with Martin Saine and I ask him about driving in 3rd gear only. He said thats how he drives his diesel. So for daily driving it doesn't get any easier and when racing I hit it in 1st, immediately shift to 2nd. Peddle it so you are not hard into the revv limiter. A built 46re with manual vb is the real deal that can take the abuse of big boost power. My advice is do it right the first time and not worry about it anymore.
 

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Ariel
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794 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Just got off the phone with Martin Saine and I ask him about driving in 3rd gear only. He said thats how he drives his diesel. So for daily driving it doesn't get any easier and when racing I hit it in 1st, immediately shift to 2nd. Peddle it so you are not hard into the revv limiter. A built 46re with manual vb is the real deal that can take the abuse of big boost power. My advice is do it right the first time and not worry about it anymore.
Does Martin Saine have a websight? Id like to know how much one of his trans would run me.
 

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Greg
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19,956 Posts
Does Martin Saine have a websight? Id like to know how much one of his trans would run me.
Martin doesn't have a website. His customer base is word of mouth. This is his phone number, give him a call or text..
1-951-907-0434
 
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Ariel
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794 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
So when I call him should I specify anything other than 46rh 4x4? Im guessing max HP under 700
 

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Greg
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19,956 Posts
Martin is easy to talk to... tell him about your truck. How you use it. What you want it to do, horsepower, weight, gears, tires, possible future mods. He'll recommend what level trans will work and that will mostly determine price.
 

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Greg
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19,956 Posts
By all means tell Martin Keith is doing the install! We are a pretty tight group and net working is how he generates his work.
 

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Red Trucker
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206 Posts
Curious, what controller is being used with the 8spd swap?
The ZF TCM is internal, it's part of the VB. The SG harness has an OBD port in it so that you can access it for tuning (as it was explained to me by Russell at SG).



Would like to see a step by step procedure on that swap.
You'd need:
8HP70 or 90
E-shifter (rotary or car style)

The SG harness
Custom two piece or one piece slip driveshaft, as the ZF doesn't have provision for a slip yoke


Harleyc04 has done this swap and was kind enough to provide me with some info (after I showed him what a pain in the dick it is to convert an early 3rd gen to floor shift lol) since this is a swap I've been eyeballing after my conversation with Russell:


the flywheel was out of an 8hp equipped ram, i don't remember which year. they're all the same anyways and very easy to come by.

yes the sound German harness is very straightforward, aside from the three connectors (one to the pcs unit, one to the trans, and one to the shifter), all you need is 12v constant, 12v switched, ground, brake switch input, tps, rpm, and reverse light output. my tps reading is taken from the APPS, rpm from an injector, and the reverse light output is a ground that is used to activate a relay to supply power to your reverse lights.

the driveshaft is a one piece shaft with a splined slip joint. I used a car transmission so the output is different and I needed a custom shaft. the truck is too low to use 4wd and I have had the front driveshaft, diff, and half shafts removed for a long time anyways. truck transmissions are easy to source, but I wanted to eliminate the weight and parasitic drag associated with an unused transfer case. installung the car tranny was more work, but manual shifting was an absolute must. I got the only car tranny available in canada, somehow nobody who drives chargers/challengers ever forgets how to drive. hard to believe more of them aren't getting wrecked. the shifter and starter came out of the same car.

the transmission has a flanged output, which is why the slip joint was required in the driveshaft. I used a sonnax 6 bolt flange adapter which bolts to the output flange and allows you to run a u joint instead of a cv joint like on the factory shaft.

I used the challenger transmission mounting hardware and mated it to my factory transmission crossmember. I just needed to make a plate with a pedestal offset about an inch rearward, the plate bolts to the crossmember and the trans mount bolts to the pedestal.

finding the correct starter locator plate (that metal piece between the engine and transmission) was a bitch to say the least. the chrysler parts catalog shows it on the diagram but lists the incorrect part number. the part number ends up being for the small plate that slides up the slot in the car oil pan that is removed to access the converter bolts. the plate from the truck 8 speed is different, as the lower half of the bellhousing is different. that also means that the structural dust cover from the trucks cant be used to cover the lower half of the bellhousing, so I had to fab up a plate that bolts to the lower half of the bellhousing and to the underside of the block along the pan rail. the cars use a really nice cast aluminum oil pan which also bolts to the bellhousing and covers the bottom half of it, along with that small inspection plate. but we cant use the car oilpan because it is a front sump and the sump would be right where our front crossmember is.

back to the starter locator plate. the parts catalog number for the cars gets you the wrong part, and the plate for the trucks doesn't match up with the lower half of the bellhousing. same goes for the 8hp90 plate. all three bellhousings have different bolt patterns. I was going to just buy a car oil pan to cut and mill the cover for the lower bellhousing from, and that is when I noticed that the oil pan part number is the same all the way back to the early 2000s, it is the same for the 8hp and nag1 cars. so since the
oilpan bolts to the bellhousing, and the bolt pattern on the back of all the blocks is the same, then that meant the starter locator plate has to be the same for the 8hp and nag1 equipped cars, and that ended up being the case, so at long last that problem was solved.

the pcm is a non issue, initially I just supplied a ground to the coil on the ASD relay in the fuse box, because when the pcm sets a no-start condition (for example when it doesn't receive any feedback from the transmission), it doesn't supply a ground to the ASD relay, which supplies 12v to your coils, injectors, and starter relay, so the truck won't even crank, let alone start. however I later learned that all that needs to be done is to ground pin #4 (P/N sense) in the 545rfe main connector, and that is what I have done now. supplying a ground to that wire just makes the pcm think that the transmission is always in either park or neutral. either way you do it, the motor starts and runs with no issues.

one other part which is absolutely necessary is the pilot bushing for the crank flange. the cranks are machined for the converter pilot on the 545rfe, and the 8hp (and nag1) converter pilot is smaller. the car cranks are machined the same and have the bushing factoey installed, but the 545rfe truck crank as well as any aftermarket hemi crank all require the bushing be installed to center the converter pilot in the crank flange. they were backordered when I realized I needed one, and that held me at a standstill for over a month. but without it there is no way to properly align the converter with the crank, which will lead to a catastrophic failure, period.

for the cooler, I used -8 ORB to 1/2" hose barb fittings to thread into the side of the the trans and ran 1/2" lines to a front mounted cooler.

the swap does get expensive by the time it is all said and done, but it would have been cheaper if i had used a truck trans. chrysler bends you over on the fluid, you're looking at close to 40 bucks a quart and the trans takes ten quarts total. after a but of digging around I found that Valvoline maxlife is approved for use in these transmissions, at an almost 80% lower price. tuning needs to be factored in as well, it is a must. in the pcs software you can set it to stay in sport or track mode all the time, and I have mine set to stay in sport. the factory shifting is great, but the tcm rev limit in the stock programming is 6,380 rpm, so when you exceed that then it kicks the trans into limp mode, which locks you in 6th gear until you pull over, put it in park and turn off then restart the truck.

torque management is also not a detriment to performance like most guys think, not only does the reduction in input torque greatly reduce the stress and wear on your clutches, it also results in faster shifts because the transmission isn't applying the oncoming clutch against a wide open motor and that clutch isn't fighting to bring down a motor running at full power as it is applying. properly tuned torque management will actually lower e.t., most guys think totally backwards on that. but since we can't send a request to the pcm for a torque reduction, a 2 step can be used. I used an N2MB wot box, and it is activated by an output on the pcs controller. when the trans wants to shift, it sends a 12v pulse to the box and the box cuts power for a programmed amount of time, I have it set for a 200ms cut. the box has a tps input and I have it set to be active at 2.5v of tps input and above. how it works is that you dig into the engine harness and cut the two wires (one per cylinder bank) that supply 12v to the coil packs and run them to the input on the box and then the output on the box goes to the coils. so when the controller wants to shift the transmission and it sends a signal to the box, the box cuts power to the coils for that preset amount of time which kills engine output during the shift. it isnt even noticeable, and I mean at all.

also, i am running 4.56's and that is not too much gear for this tranny. even with how deep first is, it isn't as bad as you'd think and it can bang off the shifts so fast that winding the engine out fast in first is a complete non-issue.
 

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Greg
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19,956 Posts
Excellent information! A couple things to consider. Is when the pcm senses the trans is in park or neutral it has a revv limiter. Easy for your tuner to reset to whatever you want. A single 12v power wire from the ASD powers both coils and injectors. This power source splits in the top harness near the front of the engine. If you want to interrupt the coils/injectors cutting into this supply would be a convenient way of doing it. There is no convenient way of getting a rpm trigger. Using coils/injectors which are cut off during deceleration doesn't provide a quality trigger. The only way I know to have a quality rpm trigger is to take the signal from the crank sensor and process it using Megasquirt box. There are added advantages in doing this as it will also datalog and provide various switches to activate add-on's. Thanks for sharing your information.
 

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Ariel
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794 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
So to shift into 4wd would the knob on the dash still work?
 

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Proud Canadian
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63 Posts
Excellent information! A couple things to consider. Is when the pcm senses the trans is in park or neutral it has a revv limiter. Easy for your tuner to reset to whatever you want. A single 12v power wire from the ASD powers both coils and injectors. This power source splits in the top harness near the front of the engine. If you want to interrupt the coils/injectors cutting into this supply would be a convenient way of doing it. There is no convenient way of getting a rpm trigger. Using coils/injectors which are cut off during deceleration doesn't provide a quality trigger. The only way I know to have a quality rpm trigger is to take the signal from the crank sensor and process it using Megasquirt box. There are added advantages in doing this as it will also datalog and provide various switches to activate add-on's. Thanks for sharing your information.
I never had an issue with losing the rpm signal during deceleration, but i did end up installing a tach signal generator (autometer p/n 9117) for a cleaner and more stable signal. i believe the crank position sensor can be used for an rpm signal as the pcs software can be set to recognize a missing tooth signal.
 

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Greg
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19,956 Posts
I have used the Autometer 9117 and found it to have a quality square wave but suffered from the same quirks as tapping an injector. Glad your setup is working for you. I have since removed it and back to a simple coil tap using a MSD Induction tap.
 

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Ariel
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794 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
Spoke to Martin today he asked how I plan to control the OD/TCC? And if i was going to build a tv cable? Whats TCC stand for and whats the tv cable System?

Looks like hes recommending a 28s performance converter. What do you guys think?

Hey Keith he's going to call you about some of the install stuff. Im not sure about the tv cable or the trans control.

Thanks
 

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Greg
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19,956 Posts
TV cable is the Throttle Valve cable. It is attached mechanically to the throttle to regulate shift pressures when driven using a automatic valve body. It isn't needed when using a full manual valve body. TCC is Torque Converter Control and can be a simple toggle switch. Flip the switch and the converter locks. Same with OD most use a toggle switch to engage overdrive. You will most likely driving normally start in 2nd gear, shift to 3rd, flip the OD switch when reaching 40 mph @ 55mph flip the TCC switch to lockup. If you want to pass a car unlock the TCC and off you go. Reach cruise speed lock it back up. I had buttons on my shift handle for the switches using latching relays.
 
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