[Dan22644]

Looking for advice on the best way to go with my project, any help would be appreciated.

I have a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 SB RC 2WD that I bought new and currently has 309,000 miles. It’s seem many mods along the way, but it’s definitely time to finish it off with the motor and trans I’ve always wanted. Since the 2003 has no programming capability, I was planning on just going to a Holley Terminator X Max, but I’ve been looking into doing an ECU swap to later model instead now and using HPTuners. My big question is which year should I go to and why?

My plan is to get the correct ECU in and running first with stock motor and trans, then swap in a T56 Magnum, then finally put in a new built motor from Arrington or MMX.

I see a lot of people say the 2005 is the one to go to because “more control” in HPTuners with very little explanation of what that means. To me it seems like it’s all about transmission control, but I want to end up with a T56 manual so I really couldn’t care less about tuning the auto trans. Is there any other reason I wouldn’t want to use a 2004 ECU? Seems like a lot less work. Others say to go to even later models, but again it all seems to be for other trans options, which I don’t need.

If I go with an auto transmission ECU, can I turn off all the codes with HPTuners that might be thrown when I go to a manual?

Truck has already been converted to 4 link with panhard, rear airbags, lowering springs in the front, 22” SRT10 wheels, SRT10 Dana 60 rear end with 4.55 gears, and SRT10 four piston front calipers, rotors, and spindle carriers, custom front and rear sway bars…

Thanks!

Daniel

 

[Rays04GTX]

I copied and Pasted My reply from a Different thread on here......hence the 85 Ram reference

I've had great success with Holley, OEM , Haltech and AEM Infinity ... I'm almost out on an Island with my preference of the 05(06-08) oem ECU with HPtuners,.......all have their advantages,...but If you know right here and right now that BIG boost #s and "daily driving" is your go to addiction .... Holley is your better choice, since you are working with an 85ram, Emissions will most likely never be an issue( I know you can't trust the feds not to screw with things)

The Mopar Crate is very friendly with SGE's system, the only people I've heard of having an issue are usually the pre 09 ECU people , and it's 90% communication
Mopar's Crate set up is based on the 2014 engine management program and algorithms, and the 8sp programing is in there....deep,deep,deep in there. We did a few 2014 RFE to 8sp swaps back in 2014/2016 and all we did was crack in to the code(my 2nd oldest kid worked for DCX/FCA and was one of the programmers who worked on the engine management side.)

If your end goal is Cruise night, Na a little N.O.S here and there go for broke , or maybe 10-14lbs boost, week end toy.....Go Mopar Crate system, less communication issues, plenty of tuning experience out there for the Mopar setup...Anyone who has a good 2014 tune with your future choice of cam is a 90% shoe in.....the phrase Every tune is different every vehicle is different takes on a new meaning with Holley and AEM , while Mopar crate/HPtuners is more on point with 90% of what's on the "road"......that's not to say as more people use the Holley set up the "free tunes/help me I can't get it going" will be more common gearhead friendly.

I run my 700+HP NA 468 on the 04 ECU with HPtuners, My 426CI G3 in my 66 dart runs an AEM infinity, I've run both on the Holley , the 04 didn't run any better, the 66 picked up .25 in the quarter with the AEM over the Holley.

Now My opinion and a lot of it is based on Boost or lack of, under 14(highside16) go mopar crate if you plan on driving more than "racing", now 14(lowside16)lbs Boost , Holley is easier to tame, especially if you want to use a 3bar Map and lock out the Cam.

now the option you haven't mentioned is a ECU out of a 2011-2014 Challenger/Charger/Jeep/anything with a Hemi.......advantage there is, if you get a good grasp on how the NNtuning part of the ECU works, you will not beat the fuel mileage/HP with the Holley setup, Benny's 82 Mirada with a SRT392 Crate engine and a 2013 Gpec controller gets 18-20 around town, 24-28 on the turn pike, lays down close to high 490 rwhp, with the Holley, his best around town was 16, turnpike was 19-20.


If (God forbid) here in the lower 48 states the EPA gets it's way and EVEYTHING post 1975 needs emissions now mater the yearly mileage , the Mopar Crate will qualify, Holley, Haltach, AEM never will.

62 Biscayne 425/409 SS/D stock class car 10.60s
66 Dart 426CIG3 [email protected] 2750lbs Naturally asperated

 

[Dan22644]

I copied and Pasted My reply from a Different thread on here......hence the 85 Ram reference

I've had great success with Holley, OEM , Haltech and AEM Infinity ... I'm almost out on an Island with my preference of the 05(06-08) oem ECU with HPtuners,.......all have their advantages,...but If you know right here and right now that BIG boost #s and "daily driving" is your go to addiction .... Holley is your better choice, since you are working with an 85ram, Emissions will most likely never be an issue( I know you can't trust the feds not to screw with things)

The Mopar Crate is very friendly with SGE's system, the only people I've heard of having an issue are usually the pre 09 ECU people , and it's 90% communication
Mopar's Crate set up is based on the 2014 engine management program and algorithms, and the 8sp programing is in there....deep,deep,deep in there. We did a few 2014 RFE to 8sp swaps back in 2014/2016 and all we did was crack in to the code(my 2nd oldest kid worked for DCX/FCA and was one of the programmers who worked on the engine management side.)

If your end goal is Cruise night, Na a little N.O.S here and there go for broke , or maybe 10-14lbs boost, week end toy.....Go Mopar Crate system, less communication issues, plenty of tuning experience out there for the Mopar setup...Anyone who has a good 2014 tune with your future choice of cam is a 90% shoe in.....the phrase Every tune is different every vehicle is different takes on a new meaning with Holley and AEM , while Mopar crate/HPtuners is more on point with 90% of what's on the "road"......that's not to say as more people use the Holley set up the "free tunes/help me I can't get it going" will be more common gearhead friendly.

I run my 700+HP NA 468 on the 04 ECU with HPtuners, My 426CI G3 in my 66 dart runs an AEM infinity, I've run both on the Holley , the 04 didn't run any better, the 66 picked up .25 in the quarter with the AEM over the Holley.

Now My opinion and a lot of it is based on Boost or lack of, under 14(highside16) go mopar crate if you plan on driving more than "racing", now 14(lowside16)lbs Boost , Holley is easier to tame, especially if you want to use a 3bar Map and lock out the Cam.

now the option you haven't mentioned is a ECU out of a 2011-2014 Challenger/Charger/Jeep/anything with a Hemi.......advantage there is, if you get a good grasp on how the NNtuning part of the ECU works, you will not beat the fuel mileage/HP with the Holley setup, Benny's 82 Mirada with a SRT392 Crate engine and a 2013 Gpec controller gets 18-20 around town, 24-28 on the turn pike, lays down close to high 490 rwhp, with the Holley, his best around town was 16, turnpike was 19-20.


If (God forbid) here in the lower 48 states the EPA gets it's way and EVEYTHING post 1975 needs emissions now mater the yearly mileage , the Mopar Crate will qualify, Holley, Haltach, AEM never will.

62 Biscayne 425/409 SS/D stock class car 10.60s
66 Dart 426CIG3 [email protected] 2750lbs Naturally asperated

I'm about 90% sure I'm going to go with Holley, which will mean I have to do my T56 Magnum swap at the same time, and build a new gauge cluster, but that's ok and I think a better result in the long run. Just too many question marks around the ECU swap and HPTuners and nobody can definitively answer them all, HPTuners refuses to answer too. Will I have issues with SKIM?? Can I tuning assistance? No. With Holley I have full control. I live in Florida, no emissions.

My brother just spent about a year tuning his 04 GTO with HPTuners and it was layer after layer of BS in that ECU intervening with the basic tune, took him a long time to get it right. And again nobody at HPTuners will even talk to you.

Motor will not be a mopar crate, it will be an Arrington or MMX 426 or 454 NA, no boost, big cam, Edelbrock heads, probably Holley High Ram Intake, Long tube headers. That's how I'm doing it.

 

[Rays04GTX]

one of the reason's I like the 04/05 ECU's is there's not a lot of those "underlying" tables that intervene with NA builds.

The boosted guys...well they have a lot of crap to deal with.

you can use the Holley and still keep the the OEM cluster.

 

[Dan22644]

you can use the Holley and still keep the the OEM cluster.

I talked to Holley about this, and now I'm pretty much leaning back to just using 05 ECU for everything. They were very much against the idea of any signal sharing between the stock and Holley ECUs, so I'm not sure how you would make the stock cluster work without some of those signals still going to the stock ECU.

I have to keep the stock gauge cluster because that is where all the cabin switches terminate (door locks and windows, lights, blinker stalk, HVAC controls etc.).

Also, Holley was not very helpful. I called to ask technical questions and they really didn't answer half of them. This was the big reason I was leaning towards them over HP Tuners, actual phone support. But he said I would likely have to buy a different wiring harness when I switched from my 03 motor to a 09+ motor. I asked what the differences were and he said I just need to look at the wiring diagrams. He said sensors changed in the later years, which is fine, I planned on having to splice in a difference connector for coil plugs and whatever else was needed, but he wouldn't research to see what those differences might be. He said just "look at the wiring diagrams", but I couldn't find any that actually showed this information.

So it seems like my choices are:

Go with Holley AND stock 05 ECU and deal with:
-finding a way to either make stock gauges work OR use Holley gauges and deal with loss a lot of indicator lights and the stock gauge cluster jammed into back of dash to retain all the inputs for switches
-paying $500 for the late model wiring harness when I upgrade motor

OR just use an 05 ECU for everything and deal with:
-figuring out how to use an automatic transmission ECU (can't find any manual 05 ECUs from 2500 5.7) for manual transmission control or how to download a manual 2500 5.7 image to the auto ECU using HP Tuners
-making all the changes needed to my stock harness for late model sensors and coil packs



The more I dig the more issues I find and less answers I get 😄