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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Back in the saddle here in the states ....no more going back in fourth between USA and Australia... I'll say it was a lot of Pro-stock fun over there.........sooooooooo
How you all doing........been awhile , been busy ....any way...... last night I started to tear down a 255k 04 5.7, it's junk yard build . it's going to be a mild cam apache heads STOCK bore, play toy for the 04 SLT , you know everything the Internet says you can't do.... I know what this combo will do with all forge components. I'm going to video a lot of it plus photos.

Forgot sold the 72 RS/SS 396 car
 

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Significant flow losses with valve OD close to the bore. Think you’d be better off going ported Eagle with bigger valves, lower cc compression chamber as well.

If you were planning on forcing air in, that’s a different story.

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So truck ran fine, towed the purple truck and trailer fine, bit confusing for the tech guy, unloaded the Purple 05 , teched it in, then unhooked the trailer from 04 SLT and teched that in….not a fan of short bed towing.
1st run with the 04, went 14.0’s next was a 13.8something, 3rd was 13.90something, I pulled back on the shift point from 5700 to 5300 and next pair of runs were in the 13.50 range
looking at the logs the 04slt runs out of fuel around 5800/6000 Rpms under hard acceleration , injector duty cycle drops to 0% for a few nano-seconds then spikes back up…..some of it is the sniper intake and some of it is the injectors are too small for the air flow, o2s were saying mid 14s before the injector duty takes a dump, got that Mopar 120% spike right before they zero out and it pops. MPH Power to weight puts it around 340-350RWHP, ET put it around 380RWHP, I have built a similar engine this past spring, Apache heads on a stock bore and stroke 05 5.7 , Manley pistons and a hellcat crank , Eagle rods 6.1 cam and sniper race intake with stock 85TB that made 390RWHP , I figure this is down about 25/40 because of the mileage on the short block.
Tune was a HPTuners modified version of Diablo 93oct , with a little more timing.
I used the stock 04 Lifters and adjustable Smith brothers push rods, you can use the stock eagle pushrods but I don’t like the lifter preload with that combo, it’s little too soft for me and you get that Hemi tick once in a while.

FWIW the Purple 05 went it's best also, 10.01 @130 , oh sooooooooooo close to 9.99

I'm working on some photo's and Video of assembly and clearance's
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Significant flow losses with valve OD close to the bore. Think you’d be better off going ported Eagle with bigger valves, lower cc compression chamber as well.

If you were planning on forcing air in, that’s a different story.

trust me when I say after several 1ks of hours Dyno testing on the G3s.....the way they react is way different then any wedge or even the G2 hemi platform, unless it's a set of Frankenstein P48s G2 heads , I have some older post about around here on how the G3 platform responds to Valve to Bore shrouding.
 

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Significant flow losses with valve OD close to the bore. Think you’d be better off going ported Eagle with bigger valves, lower cc compression chamber as well.

If you were planning on forcing air in, that’s a different story.


Funny thing is No one ever worries about Valve shrouding in the old G2 426 Hemi, that 1.94 Exhaust valve opens up closer to the Cylinder wall then the 1.65 in the Apache head on a 5.7
 

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That’s why the LS crowd continues to run away from you guys!
They may be running away from you,

One thing I learned from all dyno testing we did at Comp Cams... you can't treat the G3 Like an LS , the G3's make more HP/CI at the same cam lift and Flow #s as the LS does, the issue with the G3 is they are limited to .660 lift with stock lifters/valve gear, while the LS has an amazing amount of aftermarket support .
When making power the bigger the intake valve the better....Period
also the G3 doesn't need a Intake to exhaust flow rate as high as the LS does, LS needs 80% to get over 1.7hp/ci in NA applications, the G3 works best in the 70-75% rate. and under boost the G3 can use even less while the LS platform needs to stay above 75%



In NHRA's FFS/F class ,(NA class 3500lbs) 345CI G3 drag pak challenger holds the class record at [email protected], with .675/657 lift cam that's 2.60 HP/CI ( est 900hp) the closest Camaro in that class right now is 9.45 @ 140 mph(est800hp) with a 250lbs weight break. and that car is running a .810 lift cam.... 2.30hp/ci with more cam.

I can list about 12 other NHRA stock/Superstock and GT classes where the G3 holds records with less cam and more Valve area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Significant flow losses with valve OD close to the bore. Think you’d be better off going ported Eagle with bigger valves, lower cc compression chamber as well.

If you were planning on forcing air in, that’s a different story.

With the Wedge style heads the Intake and Exhaust valves open next to the cylinder wall, as you can see in the photo, roughly 1/3 of the Intake valve is "covered "by the cylinder wall. and about 1/4 of the exhaust valve is "covered" by the cylinder wall, ...reality is it's an issue on the intake side, the exhaust doesn't care , because of the cyl;inder pressure forcing the spent gas out of the chamber....now the Intake the column of air does care , hitting the cylinder wall disturbs the "opening curtain" cases a ripple effect which slows down the incoming charge.

Hemi's the valves open towards the center of the cylinder.........less then 10% of the valve see the wall when it opens and the higher the lift the less the cylinder wall effects the incoming charge, unlike a Wedge the cylinder wall is always effecting the incoming column of air.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hope everyone’s T-day was good, I told the misses I was going to buy another Rumble Bee, she didn’t speak to me till Sunday….

1st pic is the cylinder wall of this 266k mile 5.7 , the cross hatch is still there, if I was seriously going to try and make some power I'd hone it but for now it served it's purpose.
2nd Pic is clay mold of what the pistons see of the chamber, as you can see from the clay mold there's about .10-.125 clearance between the valve edge and the cylinder.
3rd Pic is a1.675 Titanium valve, as you can see even these will not hit the cylinder wall.
4th Pic is a 2.225 W5 intake valve, and the 1.675 valve sitting on the clay , the 2.225 are too close for my liking which is why I will only run them on a 3.937 or larger bore.

got to run , lunch is over and I have 4 dyno sessions this afternoon.
 

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Is that cross section an apache head? My eagle's had more room for the bowl blend into the water jacket, definitely would've pushed through porting to 100%+ valve.

Didn't think anyone in the LS crowd invested in small blocks anymore, but no question the Gen 3 heads outperform a comparable LS.

I 4x4 truck pull a 40 Thousand pound sled, the only ones running away are better at cheating!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Is that cross section an apache head? My eagle's had more room for the bowl blend into the water jacket, definitely would've pushed through porting to 100%+ valve.

Didn't think anyone in the LS crowd invested in small blocks anymore, but no question the Gen 3 heads outperform a comparable LS.

I 4x4 truck pull a 40 Thousand pound sled, the only ones running away are better at cheating!
That's a BGE cross section, the BGE and the Apache share the same casting cores, the difference is the BGE have support ribs on the "block side of the head, and are casted in T356 Alum, the Hellcat head shares the same port casting molds as the BGE and Apache , but have more material (thicker) upper along the top of the Intake ports for the supercharger bolt pattern, you can modify Hellcat heads to work with stock/aftermarket intake manifold, but you can't modify the BGE to work with the Hellcat blower manifold.

Most of the NA LS's I've done are either 5.3/6.0s or 7.o(427ci) some odd ball stuff once in a while , I build ten 5.0(302ci) LS a year for my old boss who does a lot of Trans am racing .
 
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