no smoking in your own car

RAM-Page · Jan 25, 2008

quote:Originally posted by Ice-Hemi:
But it will be the day,if they ban ME to smoke in MY truck no matter where I am.

That's what I said about seat belts and motorcycle helmets.

RAM-Page · Jan 25, 2008

quote:Originally posted by HEMI DAVE K:
Next thing ya know the goverent will outlaw sex on Tuesdays......and every other Thursday

The wife has already done that.

Ice-Hemi · Jan 25, 2008

That guy just came out of a restaurant

Lori · Jan 25, 2008

quote:Originally posted by SLAMLLC:

Believe me, I know the addicts are going to want to kill me here now! I just want people to think about it rationally, and with courtesy.

Notice I said these decisions should be up to the business owner. Trust me, the bars lost business.... it's just been redistributed. Now they have more non-smokers patronizing the bar. The smokers who still patronize the bar are probably not there as often, and don't stay as long, so that business is lost.

If you want a smoke free bar, open one. That's the whole point. The business owner should make that choice and most bar owners *I* know, if given the choice, would not ban smoking in their bars. Who were the loudest voices and those present in the largest numbers at that city meeting I spoke of? THE BAR OWNERS pleading with the city not to put do this to them.

Bar owners who want to allow smoking in their establishment should not be banned from doing so. I'm more than OK with someone who wants to open up a non-smoking bar to do so...

As far as I know there's no legislation preventing that, is there? And you know what? I doubt the smokers would whine about it and say how unfair it is for them to have to suffer in such a place that wouldn't allow them to smoke. We'd just go elsewhere, no big deal. Live and let live. Don't know why that's so hard. Even down to my husband. I don't subject him to my smoke. He doesn't have to deal with it, I'm the one outside in the cold, he doesn't have to clean an ashtray, etc, but for some reason, still feels the need to constantly bitch about it. Why is the solution always to oppress the other person and try to take away their rights to enjoy your own. Have smoking bars and non smoking bars. Proprietors choice. End of it. Everyone is happy.

Ice-Hemi · Jan 25, 2008

That is exactly the point,Lori.

SLAMLLC · Jan 25, 2008

Thats the point. Open to the general public means just that. If you want to have an environment where you change what all people should have equally, "fresh air," then that is the owner that should open the private club. Open to the general public should be equal to all, not just a select few.

If you want to have a golf course for men only, You open a private club. You cannot have it public. Establishments which choose to have things that might infringe upon others should be the ones to be private, not the other way around.

What if you were in a public restaurant or bar with your family and friends. I come in and sit right next to you. Open up a bottle of ammonia or an foul smelling chemical and put it right there on the table, while you were eating or drinking. The first thing you would do is ask me what the hell I was doing and insist I stop because it is bothering you because you don't want to breath that in while you are sitting in the bar drinking or eating. What is the difference?

In your own controlled environment you should be able to do legally what you want legally. do what you want. Thats just it "Your" controlled environment not in general public.

Lori · Jan 25, 2008

quote:Originally posted by SLAMLLC:
Thats the point. Open to the general public means just that. If you want to have an environment where you change what all people should have equally, "fresh air," then that is the owner that should open the private club. Open to the general public should be equal to all, not just a select few.

If you want to have a golf course for men only, You open a private club. You cannot have it public. Establishments which choose to have things that might infringe upon others should be the ones to be private, not the other way around.

What if you were in a public restaurant or bar with your family and friends. I come in and sit right next to you. Open up a bottle of ammonia or an foul smelling chemical and put it right there on the table, while you were eating or drinking. The first thing you would do is ask me what the hell I was doing and insist I stop because it is bothering you because you don't want to breath that in while you are sitting in the bar drinking or eating. What is the difference?

You just made my point. That's why some have thrown out such terms as "Nazis" etc. No solution is ever good enough except to completely have your own way about it. It's like saying the theater shouldn't run PG or R movies because anything over a G rating offends your sensibilities or is harmful to you in someway. Go to a theater that's playing something else.

There are people who are all for compromise. Free trade, free will it's Ok with us. Proprietor has the right to allow or disallow smoking, you and I have the right to patronize him or not.

So your solution is to make it private membership only if it's exclusionary? So maybe we should make the NON SMOKING establishments private membership only? Maybe NON SMOKERS should have to pay to not have to be stuck in an establishment with the likes of those who smoke, I mean if you're sitting at the booth behind me and I come in from outside reeking of smoke in my clothes and my hair, aren't you going to be just as offended? I know this behaviour... I see it every day. I live with it. Next the non smokers will try to ban anyone who has lit up in the last 10 minutes from entering an establishment because of the "smell of smoke" on them. No resolution is ever going to be good enough for those who want to utterly squash the rights of others and cannot co-exist. In your world we should be made to pay extra (membership dues) for the right to enjoy an evening at an establishment where we can smoke.

We must be made to pay... we must be punished. You know.. We wouldn't wish that on you... We'd be happy with just separate facilities as a matter of choice, but for some reason you keep pushing to have our "choices" taken away from us, so now it's no longer a matter of your choice not to patronize a smoking establishment or my choice to do so. It's all about what suits you. It always will be due to people who cannot compromise.

Lori · Jan 25, 2008

quote: If you want to have a golf course for men only, You open a private club. You cannot have it public. Establishments which choose to have things that might infringe upon others should be the ones to be private, not the other way around.

Scuse me... made my point again. We didn't tell you that you couldn't enter because you were a non-smoker. We didn't prohibit you in any way. You chose not to enter because you don't like the smoke. Your logic supports opening a private club for non-smokers because you are going to have an establishment that disallows smokers. OOOOH.... but wait... hmm... you say I can enter if I want if I opt not to smoke while I'm in there? Grand idea.

I'm not seeing the difference here....

Lori · Jan 25, 2008

quote:Thats the point. Open to the general public means just that. If you want to have an environment where you change what all people should have equally, "fresh air," then that is the owner that should open the private club. Open to the general public should be equal to all, not just a select few.

Not the point. Bars are in a different realm. Bars are not "general public" establishments. Last I knew there was an age limit on drinking. Plenty of places you can't even get into if you aren't 21. They aren't places for kids, therefore, not open to the general public.

Restaraunts ARE open to the general public. There's your place you can go to enjoy a drink without the nuisance of us smokers. Since most restaraunts are non-smoking, you can find plenty that serve liquor by the drink.

Your places of refuge to sit and have a drink without being subjected to smoke exist, so again, it's not the fact that there aren't places that suit your needs, it's just the plain and simple desire to take away the choices and rights of others.

HEMI-PUP · Jan 25, 2008

Ok, you all got me interested so I'm going to speak my peace.

Lori and Eric, I agree with you both.

Here in Massachusetts, you cannot smoke in restuarants anymore. A few years ago when you entered a restaurant, they would ask you "Smoking or non-smoking", which is ancient history. At first, this just plain pissed me off, but I'll admit (being a smoker) that I know that all the bitching in the world will not change it, so I've accepted it and learned to live with it. I smoke my last cigarette, my very last puff, right outside the restaurant door. I light up, as soon as I walk out that very same door. So, I'm "programmed" for it now.

Then came the signs that say you can only smoke in "designated areas" at most every hospital, government facility, municipal buildings, etc. Ok, I've been "programmed" for that one too. Now there are signs telling me I cannot smoke anywhere ON THEIR PROPERTY. Fine, I've walked some considerable distances to abide by that http://home.comcast.net/~steveusmc/Smilies/censored.gif"> rule.

Fenway Park, home of the Boston Red Sox (no roof by the way) has a NO SMOKING anywhere in the stands policy, and you have to go to a designated smoking area. A company I worked for back in the mid-90's started a policy where you were not allowed to smoke on their property at all. Therefore during breaks and lunch, you would see smokers pile into cars, drive [i]just[/i] off company property, and light up. I've already been asked not to smoke at a drive through window and reluctantly threw my cigarette to the ground. Massachusetts has at least 2 towns where it is illegal to light up ANYWHERE in public except in your own home. AND they are considering passing a new law to make it illegal to smoke while driving in your own vehicle if there are children under the age of 8 in the vehicle (doesn't matter whose kids they are).

Once in a while, I'll take a ride to Twin Rivers Casino with the wife. They have several floors, one which you cannot smoke on, but the rest you can. I will sit and play a slot machine very concious of who is sitting on either side of me. If I want to light up, I make sure that it's in my left hand, extended to the top of the slot machine, resting there, and blow my smoke straight up so the smoke does not bother the one next to me, whether they smoke or not. [b]HOLY CRAP HAVE I BEEN PROGRAMMED OR WHAT![/b]!

So, I have a question for you. [b]WHAT THE HELL ELSE DO YOU WANT ME TO DO TO APPEASE YOU NON-SMOKERS?[/b]

Yes, I agree that cigarette smoke to a non-smoker stinks. I don't smell it as easily as you do because I do smoke, but yes it does stink. Yes, I agree that you have the right NOT to breath in smoke stinking air. Yes, I do abide by all the signs I see and go out of my way NOT to offend anyone else near me, there have been times when I have NOT smoked when I rightfully could have, just to be a nice guy and not offend others. I think that if a restaurant or bar can have a separate area, separated by doors and walls and filled with an adequate cfm of "smoke-eaters
Ever since the term "second-hand smoke" has been realized and brought to the publics attention, it has exploded like a nuclear bomb. Personally, I think it has gone just a little too damn far already, telling me I can't smoke here or I can't smoke there, and I'm OUTSIDE IN THE OPEN AIR WITH NOBODY NEAR ME. They took cigarette ads off television many years ago. The tobacco companies have paid BILLIONS in restitution to sometimes rediculous lawsuits. We, as smokers are taxed out the ying-yang for every butt we light up. Yaddy, yadda ...

Eric, trust me when I say that I agree with you fully. I abide by the rules as do almost every single person I know who smokes. But there are those stubborn few who make us look bad. Kinda like the ones who won't wear a seat belt, even though it is the law. Those who park in handicap spots "just for a minute" when they know it's illegal. Those who drink and drive and kill themselves and SO MANY OTHERS, again it's illegal.

I agree with most of the new non-smoking laws I really do. But you have to admit that it's starting to reach a point where it's beyond reason.

Ok, time to get off my soap box (for now).

Pup

HemiByrd · Jan 25, 2008

Another example of the extreme measures anti-smoking laws go to in some states. This is Illinois again. I said I think Illinois is run by Nazis and I stand by that statement:

quote: Effective January 1, 2008, the Smoke-free Illinois Act prohibits smoking in virtually all public places and workplaces, including offices, theaters, museums, libraries, educational institutions, schools, commercial establishments, enclosed shopping centers and retail stores, restaurants, bars, private clubs and gaming facilities.

http://www.smoke-free.illinois.gov/

Pretty draconian measure not allowing smoking in a private club. Sig Heil!

Lori · Jan 25, 2008

Pup, good post. Let me make it clear that I don't want to ever come across as not being understanding of the non-smoker's right to clean air and their feelings toward smoking and I'm not attacking anyone here personally.

What chaps my butt is the lack of consideration going the other way.

I too make every effort to ensure my smoke doesn't bother others. I don't smoke around my kids or in the house. Even when I am driving my own vehicle, if I have another adult in the truck with me, I ask them if it's going to bother them if I smoke before I light up. If I'm only going a short distance I refrain altogether or if long distances I let it be their choice and if it bothers them, I won't light up in the truck and when I do, I make sure the windows are down and I keep the cig right up to the open window, just in the window enough to keep the wind from catching it and I blow the smoke up and out the window.

If I'm in a bar, etc. I blow the smoke upwards, same as you to avoid blowing it in someones face and I am always aware of where my smoke is drifting. I will physically get up and reposition myself or trade spots with someone to get the smoke going away from them.

Even outside on my own front porch, I will trade places with someone visiting to ensure they are not downwind from my cigarette.

I know people who don't care. My oldest brother is one of them. He goes to my mom's house, who doesn't smoke and hates it and lights up. He doesn't care who is in the car with him (my asthmatic son, for one) he will light up and never crack a window. I love my brother but it's hard for me to be around him when he's smoking and I'm a smoker, so don't think I do not understand the wishes of those who do not want to be exposed to it.

Just wish we the other side felt just a fraction of the same empathy and concentrated on a solution rather thats agreeable to BOTH sides of the issue than just attempting to behead the problem.

SLAMLLC · Jan 25, 2008

The thing is, you might think you are being considerate in a bar or restaurant because you blew your smoke up in the air, and not directly in someones face. Where do you think that smoke goes. It comes right back down and you breath it in. It doesn't stay 2 inches from the ceiling. I guess that is where I see the difference with most smokers. Most smokers only are considerate about the smoke coming off the end of the cig which you can see. The first 2 feet of smoke. After that they feel its no longer their concern. So the courtesy ends there.

I don't care who wants to smoke. Feel free. The difference I see is that smokers change the quality of the enclosed environment they are smoking in. It is as simple as that. Non-smokers do not change the enclosed environment they are in. So why should the ones who do not change the quality of the enclosed envirnment be punished by those who do?

If you control your own environment then feel free. In your house have a ball. In your car, have a ball. Outside as far as I am concerned light up! I do have a problem with this though, sorry Pup,

"I've already been asked not to smoke at a drive through window and reluctantly threw my cigarette to the ground."

This is another reason why so many places that used to allow smoking in designated areas, even outside, no longer do.

It is really hard to have a discussion about this with people who do smoke because of the addictive nature of smoking. Emotion becomes tied to it and it is almost impossible to seperate it from the discussion if you do smoke. Anyone who differs in opinion is attacking your "need" for the product. The addiction goes beyond the chemical for some people. I have friends who are addicted to the ritual of smoking more than the chemical. They buy one pack at a time and actually have told me they enjoy running out of cigs in order to drop what they are doing, go get in the car, drive to the store and buy another pack. The anticipation of going through the ritual of getting ready to get the cigs and the anticipation of getting the new pack has almost become an addition. It literally consumes your life. You can have anxiety from knowing you might only have two cigs left and how am I going to get out of here to get more. Then thats all you think about. This message has been edited. Last edited by: SLAMLLC, document.write(''+ myTimeZone('Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:55:53 GMT-0800', '25 January 2008 07:55 AM')+''); 25 January 2008 07:55 AM

SLAMLLC · Jan 25, 2008

I understand that you think there is no consideration from non-smokers to smokers. I get that. I can see how it must feel for something that was acceptable has now changed and you feel for the worse. I do agree that some laws are way over the top. Like smoking in your own car and private clubs, thats BS. I will fight for your right s there.

I have a hard time thinking that smoking in your own car and in your own house and in clubs you may belong to or that charge a "door charge" to get in so they are not welcoming general public and the whole "great outdoors" of the entire world is not enough space for smokers. That bothers me a little.

I also do understand the hefty taxes smokers pay and if they didn't all of us would have to pay more. I have an open mind and do try to understand all points of view. Really I do. I am not suggesting smoking should be outlawed.

I guess it comes down to the way I see it is that, the non-smoker is not causing the smoker any harm or discomfort by having the smoker step outside to have a cig. But the smoker is causing the non-smoker harm and discomfort by forcing the smoke on others when they smoke indoors. I see it as that simple. This message has been edited. Last edited by: SLAMLLC, document.write(''+ myTimeZone('Fri, 25 Jan 2008 05:20:07 GMT-0800', '25 January 2008 08:20 AM')+''); 25 January 2008 08:20 AM

HEMI-PUP · Jan 25, 2008

Thanks for the reply Eric, and I apologize for letting my emotions go awry/amiss/askew, I want you to know that my frustration was in no way directed at you specifically.

Eric, I may be a smoker and have been for many, many years, but I'm on your side. I have been in places where even I don't like the air I'm breathing. My point was to let you and others know that there are many people out there like myself and Lori who are as conciderate as we can be aside from not lighting up at all. We've honestly become "programmed" to think about others before we strike a match.

This past summer, 6 of us (adults) took a day trip to a zoo. I went to their website first to find out the prices, location, etc., and lo-and-behold there it is "No Smoking Allowed Inside The Park". Now, I can honestly agree with that because (a) smokers in general don't give a damn where they throw they expended butts, (b) animals breath fresh air just like we humans do and some can be very sensitive to cigarette smoke, (c) the smoke does bother non-smokers. This I fully agree with, but why can't they provide even one single "designated smoking area" away from everyone? We are outside in the open atmosphere for crying out loud.

As it was, we were there about 1-1/2 hours when we decided to grab a bite to eat, then we smokers in the group actually left the park and sat out front to have a smoke, then returned on our tour of the park until we left.

My major complaint is that they do go a little too far with their no-smoking "zones". If I'm outside and well away from non-smokers, I don't see the problem. Hell, they should ban all vehicles from these exact same non-smoking "zones" for the nasty chemicals they also put into the air.

Eric, we fully understand your point and we do agree with you. But it's the extremes that the legislatures are going to that bother me more than anything else.

Pup

SLAMLLC · Jan 25, 2008

Steve, I am with you. I agree outdoors is/should be unquestioned smoking area. I did read somewhere something about animals harmed by eating cig butts left on the ground. I bet that is what the zoo is going to say is the reason. I also get that some will even go so far as to lie and use that as the reason, maybe because they are against smoking in general. I agree designated areas could be (especially outdoors) should be provided. I have seen many a company add smoking pavillions outside with nice gazebos and such for employees to enjoy going for a smoke. Thats great. I have also heard smokers praise them for it and appreciate the lengths the company went to set this up. I have also heard smokers condemn it saying how they are forced to go outside or to an area they wouldn't normally go to smoke. So there are all kinds. I appreciate your open mindedness as always and highly value your opinions as always. I agree more should be done to help accomodate those who do smoke because of the transitional time we are in. Many smokers have been smoking since before the ills of it were known and or told. I feel for those who are addicted. I wish they could break the addition.

RAM-Page · Jan 25, 2008

I'm glad I quit smoking although I'm for smokers rights. Now that I quit I can do the following.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QQzbCmlZM4

HEMI-PUP · Jan 25, 2008

Thanks for posting the link Robert, I actually really enjoyed that!

Pup

TheBoss · Jan 26, 2008

quote:Originally posted by RAM-Page:
I'm glad I quit smoking although I'm for smokers rights. Now that I quit I can do the following.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QQzbCmlZM4

Boy I miss doing that. I did that all through HS. "It don't mean a thing..."

Oh, sorry... back to smoking debate.

bigkumadog · Jan 26, 2008

Little to hyper for me

no smoking in your own car

RAM-Page

RAM-Page

Ice-Hemi

Lori

Ice-Hemi

SLAMLLC

Lori

Lori

Lori

HEMI-PUP

HemiByrd

Lori

SLAMLLC

SLAMLLC

HEMI-PUP

SLAMLLC

RAM-Page

HEMI-PUP

TheBoss

bigkumadog

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