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Old 09-02-2014, 07:54 PM   #1
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Interesting read


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Old 09-02-2014, 09:02 PM   #2
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*disclaimer: Not trying to stir the pot here or offend anyone. I just felt a rant brewing and couldn't stop myself.*

This is an interesting read. Neither side is completely wrong. Neither is completely right either. I had a college roommate that is atheist. We had some rather in-depth debates with occasional varying degrees of hilarity lol I actually got him to admit that, because people have not experienced the mistakes of previous generations, history tends to repeat itself, the same mistakes keep being made today that were made long ago. And because of this, there are many bible verses and teachings that are still relevant today. I personally don't take much faith in many of the mysteries or miracles portrayed in the bible. I've also lost all faith in church leadership, being raised catholic in the wake of the child abuse scandals. Sickening. Also, almost all denominations of cristianity are divisions of catholicism that date back to the dark ages and are based on political bickering among power hungry "leaders" so I don't put much faith in their leadership either. Their formation came about because people pushed aside bible teachings and chose not come together and forgive one another. My stance is that religions, in their traditional ritualistic form, do not help the common man. With the corruption in the leadership structure they can't. Reading bible scriptures and the independent interpretation of these bible teachings can help the common man however. I also don't appreciate church leaders preaching that if I don't hand them my hard earned money every week, and show up every week that I'll be damned to hell. I've been to church 3 times this year. Twice for weddings and once for a funeral and I can guarantee that I live better than some of the people that put on their goody-two-shoes church-goer mask every Sunday. Sometimes they'll be the first to throw a guy under the bus.

In essence my stance goes like this:
1) The structure of religion in general is broken.
2) Science has refuted several miraculous claims of the bible.
3) There is still room for faith because science has not explained everything.
4) The bible still holds a lot of valuable teachings that everyone can relate to and learn from.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:10 AM   #3
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This is not a place for bashing , I only wish we lived closer together so we could talk face to face. True Science always bears out or proves the Bible. So I will close with one statement: Believe what you will,, if you are right and in death there is no after life all will be fine but if I am right and there is an after life than there is going to be and awesome awaking to those who for years have discredited the Bible as a book of old fables and find themselves in a place of eternal agony only because they chose to dis-believe God's Holy Irrerant, Infallible, Inspired Word.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:01 AM   #4
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I didn't take Matt's post as bashing Ken and I doubt that it was meant to be taken that way. I am a believer, though sometimes I don't follow the rules as I should. I think mankind needs something to believe in. I also think the Bible is a great learning tool that was given to us to teach us how we should live our lives. I do agree with Matt that "some" churches have become more of a social gathering place than a place of worship and learning... It's a shame that so many people have lost faith in God and the Church.
As for me....I will continue to pray and live the best life I can. If, as the non-believers think we are wrong it will mean nothing. But, like you said, if they are wrong it is they who will pay the price for their rejection.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:34 AM   #5
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Sorry if I miss spoke Doug, I didn't think Matt was bashing I just didn't want him to think I was bashing him. Maybe should have worded it better. And I know all to well that churches are more of a social gathering even Jesus says of the last day church:
Rev 3:16 But since you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:14 Write to Laodicea, to the Angel of the church. God's Yes, the Faithful and Accurate Witness, the First of God's creation, says:
Rev 3:15 "I know you inside and out, and find little to my liking. You're not cold, you're not hot--far better to be either cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 You're stale. You're stagnant. You make me want to vomit.

So Doug we are not the only ones not liking what we see in todays church.
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:18 PM   #6
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Yes, there was no bashing intended and I wasn't insulted Ken I'm mature enough to know that people aren't going to agree with me and I'm not going to force anything on them either. We can certainly have an open conversation about what's wrong in the world. I think, for the most part, we agree on what's wrong.

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Originally Posted by BAMA-HEMI View Post
So Doug we are not the only ones not liking what we see in todays church.
Nail on the head. That's exactly what I'm feeling. Frustration with the leadership. With all the scandals and negative publicity it's embarrassing to walk through the doors. And IMO there's no forgiving some of the pastors for what they did so those boys. Completely uncalled for. And back home, one of the lectors and a guy that never misses a mass, had a habit of not paying his bills and was driving a new truck around and had 3 tractors all less than 5 years old. He was more than happy to ask people to do something for him and then stick them. I don't agree with that and I have no idea how he gets away with it or sleeps at night. I haven't completely lost faith. I just have no faith in traditional church structure. The authority of church leaders is failing and essentially it's their fault for allowing the hypocrisy that led to horribly scandalous things happen. I'm not going to fund or support an institution that has
"moral authorities" raping children and "parish servants" stabbing their neighbors in the back. Those actions go against my morals and I am simply refusing to support that. I'll just keep practicing at home. It's unfortunate what's happening in the world. I just wish there was a way to fix it.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:34 AM   #7
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Mat 16:15 Then Jesus asked them, "But who do you say I am?"

We must get our eyes off others and their conduct and measure our belief in the person of Jesus. We all must ask ourselves this question, Who is He:
1.A Lunatic---to make the statements that He made it would seem that He is a nut,, He said: I AM GOD--I WILL RISE ON THIRD DAY---GET UP AND WALK----to the dead He commanded them to arise.
2.A LIAR: to make all the statements above and if none of these be true than He is a Liar.
3. LORD: To be able to fulfill all He said and accomplish all He said than He must be Lord. And since He is Lord then you have to (1)Reject Him or (2) Accept Him.

The Bible states:
Php 2:8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Php 2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The choice is ours reject Him and bow later and recieve eternal damnation or Accept Him today and recieve eternal life,joy and peace. Not only in the life to come but you can experience His grace today and He is the one who gives purpose to our life.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:50 PM   #8
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I am a hard core scientist classically trained in many disciplines, I am a Christian believer from birth...I have absolutely no doubt what works for me. My only wish is that others at least have the opportunity to see the light of salvation.

Enough said for my two cents,
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:01 PM   #9
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I am not sure what all this is leading to but I will say that Matt has many of the same opinions that I have. Every denomination has been raked with scandals. That doesn't mean that those who believe are necessarily being miss lead. To me it means some of those that we place above the average man, the ones we put our trust in to guide us have failed miserably in many cases. I believe in my heart that God is the answer but many of what I have always been taught were our "Teachers and Guides" to heaven have failed us beyond what I would have believed as a youth. I know there are many more good people in the world than the bad, but it's like so many people hating cops because they got a ticket. I don't hate or distrust the clergy but I also have a hard time figuring out who is doing the "teaching" for the right reasons and who isn't. The answers aren't easy for me to find in today's world. I pray that God will send us a true leader that we will know and understand in time to save the many that have strayed.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:01 AM   #10
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Failure among GODíS people is nothing new; biblical history is littered with it. Samson failed. Abraham failed. Solomon failed. Jonah failed. The Hebrews failed. All twelve of the disciples of Jesus failed; Even King David, who was a man after GODíS own heart failed; ďBut the thing that David had done displeased the LordĒ (2 Samuel 11:27). So all of these committed willful disobedient sin, aiding and abetting the enemy after having once pledged fidelity to GOD. In both Testaments, the evidence of failure is both overwhelming and sobering.
But equally overwhelming is the evidence that GOD is in the restoration business. Through out the ďWord of GODĒ is the astonishing record of the LORDíS effort to reclaim and to restore those who are eternally HIS, but who in a moment of weakness betrayed their initial allegiance. The potential for restoration plainly exists. In (Galatians 6) we are told ďIf a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.Ē Needless to say, there are common scriptural threads that herald restoration, and these threads outline processes and responsibilities that if embraced, has the potential of releasing the backslidden from their bondage and restoring them to the LORDíS enjoyment and employment.
Restoration is more than mending broken hearts and bringing closure to sad chapters in life; it is refusing to surrender any of heavenís own to hellís work; it is redeploying wounded soldiers (restored) into constructive service for the glory of GOD. While certain areaís of service may be forfeited, depending upon the nature of the sin committed, we should remember that GOD controls the future and even HIS second best is usually pretty good.
Restoration is not only possible, it is encouraged and hoped for.
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